Firstly I have added some information on Stanah House Farm to the website including 2 very good photos kindly donated by James.
I have also been browsing through my copy of a Victoria County History today which is a great source of info but about as far away from easy reading as it gets. I’ve decided many times to go through it and write down who owned what and when only to give up 10 minutes later as so many of the entries contradict each other. Its also very easy to get distracted .. I almost always start looking for one thing and end up somewhere else. Whilst doing just this I came across the following two entries:
"Alice widow of Alan de Singleton in 1245 arranged with William the son of Alan as to the succession of two ploughlands in Thornton, she acknowledging William’s right and receiving it for life, together with a third part of the fishery at Singleton. If Alice should not be able to grind in her mill of Thornton she might use that of Singleton free of multure. She released to William all her dower right and he gave her £10."
Seems like a good deal to me ! Now this first entry doesn’t actually use the term ‘windmill’ so it could be referring to either a wind, water or animal powered mill. The second entry is more specific though.
"Thomas son of Lawrence Travers in 1349 granted Robert de Pleasington a windmill and lands in Stanah in Thornton, Ribbleton, Ashton, Elswick and Ingol, and in default of issue to his other sons Lawrence, Edmund, Thomas, Roger, William and Richard."
Whether these are referring to the same mill or two separate mills I am not sure .. I did try and follow the family lines but in the end my eyes crossed! I wasn’t aware of any other windmills in Thornton prior to Marsh Mill and am almost certain they would have been wooden and probably on a much smaller scale but interesting none the less.
That’s another entry in my to do list then .. I'll save Haddle Moss for another day.
Also …
Mario Maps are now doing 1940’s and 1960's aerial photos which are grainy, extremely slow to load but good to see.
A
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The land abuting the river ( including my relations farm)was previously owned by the Dutchy of Lancaster, when sold the river was also included to mean high water.I have a copy of the deed map.I think Stannah Hill Farm was previosly known as "The Drummonds".
ReplyDeleteIncedentally a property (an old shop opposite Spar on Lawsons Rd,Now empty,in a poor state of repair and over run with Rats is said to also be owned by the Dutchy,and thats why WBC are unable to clean it up
Melanie,
ReplyDeleteAlice de Singleton's mill, as far as we can tell, was a watermill at Stanah. We more or less worked out where it was for our Mediaeval History of the Wyre book, part of which I reproduced for a discussion on the Fylde & Wyre Antiquarian forum about the de Singletons.
Hopefully this link should take you to it.The bit about the mill, if the link doesn't take you there directly, is about halfway down the page.
Incidentally, I've checked Yates's map for you and it seems that 'Abbeystead Cottage' was, probably, there in the 18th century, if not before.
p.s. Those photographs of James's are brilliant, especially the Lancashire Cheese Cup one. Couldn't help noticing the old cheese press in the background. (I've drawn one of them somewhere...here we go.
ReplyDeleteHi James
ReplyDeleteThat shop is a right mess opposite spar .. wondered why they hadn't tidied it. I'm sure I have seen the Drummonds on the census somewhere but will go back and have another look through.
Brian
I was reading your book earlier but didn't get to that bit .. must try harder. I try not to cross reference with anyone, mainly because I am a control freak, and also its fun to find things yourself. Having said that am now off to plunder your work !!
Those cheese presses in the photo look almost brand new or just very looked after .. what a shame they left Thornton but there wasn't anywhere round here for them to go at the time I suppose.
Melanie,
ReplyDeleteThere's a cheese press in the Fylde Country Life Museum, along with a number of other interesting cheese and butter related items. I've also got a cheese weight and a rather crumpled cow bell on the top of my kitchen cupboard at home that we dug up from Bourne Hill a couple of years back. (Not from the Iron Age layer I ought to add.)
That old shop i believe used to be called jordan,s i remember getting my sweets there on my way home from school.
ReplyDeleteWhen we went to the museum they were working on the electrics so we missed some of the details at the beginning but would go back.
ReplyDeleteHi, Just been looking at your map of Stannah, it would appear that the mill was in one of Stannah Hill Farm fields. All that peninsula including part of the river (apart from the bit that was sold for the wild life park) belongs to Stannah hill Farm and theres a dyke running between the farm house the bungalow next door.Also you photo of what you call the smithy must be post 1960s, The clock was put there by a Mr Hutton(hence forth know as Huttons Folly)There is a date carved in stone behind it. who purchased it around that time(He lodged across the road with Harold Bamber (I knew him well,)Harold farmed at Lodge Farm on the corner of Lambs Rd, as I've said befor the old barn was part of Lodge farm when my grandfathers family had Lodge farm,that before it was before it was sold to T.B Silcock around 1926.
ReplyDeleteHi, Michael, I remember when i came back on leave from Malaya in 1954, it was Scotts cafe,Still in the Army for another 10 years so did'nt see much of Thornton for a while.
ReplyDeleteOoo .. now I know who owns my favorite bit of Thornton. I am a bit particular to Stanah Hill and whats up there.
ReplyDeleteHi James
ReplyDeleteMy dad grew up in Thornton and was in the Kings Own from 1942 to 1947. I wish he was here now so I could ask him all about growing up in Thornton.
Hi,H.H,I'm an ex PARA, I bet your Dad would say its not improved with age.
ReplyDeleteHi Brian
ReplyDeleteHave managed to read through your links and it certainly looks like you are right. My next step was to look for likely sites. Would they have had a much larger man made pond up on the hill to provide the water as you would need quite a lot to run a water mill I suspect.
Melanie,
ReplyDeleteThere were (and still are I think) a series of ponds along the ridge of the hilltop between Stanah and Ramper Pot. The chances are these would have been connected and controlled by means of sluice gates. Next door to Raikes Farm, if you take a look, is a very intriguing rectangular depression. This was possibly connected to the mill, acting as a reservoir or an 'overflow' pond.
James,
The smithy was still in use, according to my sister who lives over the road, in the 1980s, although the original smithy, I think, stood on Victoria Road.
In 1841 the Bay Horse beer shop was also a Blacksmiths. My thoughts are that originaly it was a long one storey building which if you look inside would just take in the vaults and a small room to the side.
ReplyDeleteIt was also run by my rellies for 20 years round the turn of the century. Whilst another rellie had the Severn Stars at Stalmine .. now ya think I'd get free drinks wouldn't you !
brian theres seven or eight ponds in a line we used to fish em when we were kids . we had many a good perch from the top one overlooking the picknick area , and there still there cause we had a walk up there a couple of weeks back . cheers andy
ReplyDeleteHi Brian, there was a farier there for a while in the 80s,think his name was Jorden worked out of the back of a Land rover,According to my wife who lived at Silcocks cottages at that time, His family lived up Woodhouse, his sister an actress was in Emerdale.the story is that a local Vet found out that he had not passed all his exams and he had to pack up, i do know the barn was full to the roof with straw, after he left It was then taken over by a mate of mine Tommy Sewell who kept Geese there until he passed on.Then bought by someone who worked on the oil rigs, who turned it into a holiday cottage,I've know the place since the early 1930s,Worked there early 1940s when Alf Braid kept hens on the land at the rear,kept all the feed in the Barn I used to let em out and collect eggs in the morning before going to school.feed and lock em up at night.As far as Mine and my wifes recolection apart for a short time in the 80s has never been a blacksmiths,Theres an old forge on fleetwood rd opposite the lecture hall.We used to take the horses to Station rd in Poulton.
ReplyDeleteso we never used that one.
Hi,history hunter,s, My relatives The woods had the Seven Stars When the Navvies were digging out the salt mines,According to my cousin they made a lot of money there, left and bought Hambleton Hall(i've seen some family paintings the curator of Grundys Art gallery in blackpool has seen them and said they were painted by a leading artist of that time,Are we related?your not conected to the Ronsons from stalmine are you.???????
ReplyDeleteMelanie,
ReplyDeleteThe Bay Horse area sounds about right.
Andy,
There you go. (You've never caught any fish from those ponds with Roman coins inside 'em, have you? I know it's a long shot, but it's got to be worth a try.)
James,
A farrier sounds more likely, I must admit. It was my sister who told me it was a blacksmith, but she probably didn't know the difference. The old forge on Fleetwood Road...that was the place that became Thornton Pottery was it? That has to be an old building does that one. Typical Fylde long house design, end on to the road.
Hi James
ReplyDeleteNo I was a Lawrenson in a previous life and the rellies at the Severn Stars were William Stirzaker who married Alice Lawrenson and had the pub around the 1880's.
Brian
ReplyDeleteI'd like to have a look in the bottom of those ponds myself.
Brian, it was only yesterday i was looking at the old pottery and wondering just how old the place was.
ReplyDeletejames, scotts cafe before my time i must say.
History Hunter' i'm related to the Sturzikers way back along the line,mind you in those days everyone was related,farmers sons married farmers daughters, and so on and onI was related in some way to most families "ower Dyke",theres a tale in my family of a distant female relative coming home for lunch to be told your getting married in 3 weeks time,she was the oldest and had to be married next even though the lad wanted to marry her younger sister.
ReplyDeleteRe; the pit There are 3 rolls of barbed wire thrown in there by the home guard at the end of WW2 mind you its pretty deep.
Hi Brian, yes its the pottery now there was a fire round the back a few years ago,and they were suprised to discover that theres were old stables there
Mike and James,
ReplyDeleteI'll have to look into the Pottery (so to speak) at some point. The building itself is probably relatively modern, but its shape and situation suggest that the foundations at any rate could be considerably older.
Brian
ReplyDeleteI have only parked outside the pottery to have a look see when James mentioned it to me for the top 10 oldest bit on the site. I think it might be older than it initially looks .. the wonders of pebble dash! The side facing towards the windmill has a large carriage archway and it looks sort of late 1700's early 1800's to me. It might also of course be a 1950's prefab.
Melanie,
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely. You'd need a good long look around inside to find out the true age...but it's a mighty odd shape...definitely smacks of a Fylde longhouse.
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