The Sunday Quiz ...

Evening all .. well probably not all if Brian is still trying to get back online (I just have this picture of him trying to make something out of a radio and a soldering iron muttering away about BT).

I've added some info on the site today about Huck de Singleton. I was positive he owned land in Thornton but it turns out I can't actually find a record of him having done so. I know his son did and after 3 days of trawling through latin translations from the 12th century I'm putting him on anyway (you can imagine the 'so there' at the end of that sentence).

I've put off my visit to the Records Office this week due to the heat .. I couldn't think of anything worse than sitting in a boiling hot room. I wish it would thunder to clear the air .. I'm not built for heat.


Now for the Quiz

Where in Thornton am I? ...












The Answer was ... The Last Orders Pub.

The posts can be seen from the road and must have been the main gate posts at some point although they are now at the back of the car park.

In 1st place .. Andy
In 2nd place .. John
In 3rd place .. Mike


Just for Fun ...

This is a new blog belonging to Phil from Rossall Beach.

Phil's Fun Stuff

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Been to the Pub ...

Well in the interests of historical research I have been to the Bay Horse for my lunch today with a bit of light refreshment included. I suppose somebody has to do it ;-) I'm pretty sure I can see where the building mentioned on Thursday was but at the moment the brambles and nettles are so high I couldn't get a pic. The lager was good though .. bonus!

I haven't done much on the site (nothing actually) for the past 2 days as I've had a bit of a break so nothing to report new .. back at it tomorrow for Thursdays post.


Now for the Quiz

Where in Thornton am I ? ...

I'll add another pic tomorrow for another clue.

Answers here as usual folks.

2nd picture added below ...

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The Bay Horse Blacksmiths Perhaps ? ...

Firstly a lady on the Thornton Cleveleys Forum is trying to locate Rose Bud Cottages in Thornton. They seem to be between Gaskells Farm and Marsh Mill and any help would be great.

I’m doing another page for the Knights, Noblemen and Landowners section of the site at the moment .. Roger de Poitou is now on. I was going to look at Earl Tostig but some records (and Brian) correctly state that he died in 1066 at the Battle of Stamford Bridge whilst others clearly mention him after this. Have decided to do Huck (de Singleton) instead he seems much easier to trace and couldn’t resist after seeing him referred to as Huck (Fuccus) de Singleton. Well it tickled me.

I’ve been contacted by John after mentioning a blacksmith at the Bay Horse and he remembers a building which used to stand just behind the pub which he and his mates used as a den. It was brick built and looked very old and was covered in Ivy.

Click on the pics to enlarge them.

This is a 1960’s aerial photo courtesy of John and Mario Maps.















And a modern map with where I think the building was .. ish.



















This is John’s excellent drawing of the layout of the building and it’s a very strange layout. There were no obvious steps down to the lower floor so perhaps a ladder was used.

The mysterious thing is that it isn’t shown on any of the OS maps from 1840 – 1912 but quite clearly it was there and as John said it was very old. Perhaps it had been derelict for a while and was just wasn’t noted .. I will have to have a look at the 1932 map next time I go to the Library. I have no idea if this layout would show a Blacksmiths shop but being next to the dyke (which is a main dyke here) would provide water for whatever was going on and the large fire in the corner could have been the forge.

Another theory could be that this was the old brewery for the pub which also would need water (don’t fancy dyke beer myself) and a fire. Perhaps the vats stood on the lower level.

This is one where we’ll probably never know but interesting never the less.

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The Four Word Story ...

Just for fun ...

Each poster adds four words to the story each time they post .. keep it clean folks.

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The Sunday Quiz ...

I've just added a new page on the site called Knights, Noblemen and Landowners .. a very grand title indeed. I'm trying to add a bit of background information to the names which keep cropping up in the records relating to Thornton. I started a while back but got so bogged down with dates and names I decided to leave it for a bit (roughly translated as I gave up). I only have the main page up at the mo but hope to have some info linked to Roger de Poitou by tomorrow.

I'm also getting ready for another visit to the Records Office. I was hoping to go this week but need to go through my list again to check the records I want to look at. If I get it done I will go on Thursday. I'm torn between looking at the things which interest me (fields and boundaries) and putting interesting things on the site for those of you who have a life. A 50/50 split seems fair to me.


Now for the Quiz

The answer to this weeks quiz is ...




















As I forget to take a wider shot you'll have to take my word on this.

The Old Council Offices near Four Lanes End.

In 1st place .. Mike
In 2nd place .. Andy (only minutes later)
In 3rd place .. Brian
In 4th place .. Brenda

Just for fun

Have added another post called the Four Word Story.

Thornton's Parish Records ... The Sequel

Part One

Tonight is the second installment of St Chads Parish Records and is looking at Thornton’s best dressed.

I was surprised at the number of people involved in clothing production as I thought at this date most would have been produced at home.

Flax Dresser

1789-1791 – Joseph Wilcock

Now I have to confess when I first read this I thought it as something to do with candles .. shows what I know! A flax dresser is someone who prepares the fibres from the flax plant before they are spun into linen.

The first process is 'thrashing the flax' to remove the seeds which were used elsewhere. The flax is then ready for 'retting' which is where the inner stalk is rotted away to leave the fibres. This is usually done by soaking the flax in water and due to the terrible odour produced was done in running water where possible but ponds where not. Another method was to lay the bundles out in the fields and allow the dew to collect on it .. this took the longest time ( about a month) but produced the highest quality flax fibres.

Dressing the Flax

This is where the straw is removed from the fibres and consists of 3 steps:
Breaking – this is where the flax is beaten to soften it.
Scutching – the flax is hung up vertically and a scutching knife is swung down the fibres to remove pieces of stalk.
Heckling – the remaining fibres are pulled through various different sized heckling combs which get smaller and finer.

After the last comb there are 2 grades of flax: the fibres pulled throught he comb are the finest and the fibres and stalks ‘combed out’ called ‘tow’ produce a lower quality coaser fibre as they still contained some stalks.

Weavers

1784-1787 – Oliver Holden
1788 – ....... Simon Holden – cotton weaver
1789 – ....... William Bullen
1790-1796 – John Gregson
1797 – ....... William Gregson

As some of the weavers have the same surname it is likely that they could have been working together. With the port of Skippool nearby the raw material could have been grown locally or imported. Simon Holden is listed as a ‘cotton weaver’ which at the time also reffered to a type of finish on woolen cloth and did not necessarily refer to the fabric although again actual cotton could have been imported.

Taylors

1783 – ....... Christor Collinson
1783-1787 – Thomas Hornby – Trunnall (Trunnah)
1784 – ....... George Hornby
1784-1790 – Nicholas Hodgson (alias Tully)
1786-1797 – James Cowel

Again 5 taylors is more than I would have thought for Thornton with most of the population being farm/land workers. I do like an alias though.

Shoe Makers

1783 – ....... Richard Greenalgh
1790-1791 – Lawrence Anyon
1797 – ....... William Sharples

I was a little disappointed not to see a clog maker or cobbler amongst this lot.

Cordwainer

1793 – John Pearson

Again I will show my ignorance as I thought this was to do with ropes.

A cordwainer is someone who makes things from high quality leather and especially fine boots for the upper classes and nobility. This is definitely not your common or garden shoe maker unless of course he was just bigging himself up!


Now for the Quiz

Where in Thornton am I ? ...

Answers here as usual

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Thornton's Parish Records ...

Tonight I thought I would pull some information from St Chads Parish Records from between 1759 and 1798 as it’s surprising how much information you can get from them. Unfortunately the majority of the earlier records don’t have an occupation listed for the father and you definitely want to avoid a ‘B’ in the margin ;-) I will cover the rest on Sunday as I don’t want to bore you too much in one go when I can spread it out.

At the time Thornton covered a much larger area and included Cleveleys and Fleetwood although they seem to be quite sparsely populated if the maps are to be believed. Having said that most of the records do state for example ‘Ritheram in Thornton’ if it isn’t actually Thornton but I suppose it comed down to what mood the vicar was in on the day. These all say Thornton.

The dates below are when they baptized children and their occupation is listed so doesn’t actually show how long their working lives were. The majority of the other entries say husbandman which generally means someone who works on the land but here are some of the more interesting ones.

Inn Keepers
There are two in keepers listed .. John Hull in 1762/3 and Anthony Salthouse in 1784. This could be relating to two different occupants of one pub as the dates are 20 years apart. So which pub ? I don’t know the date of the original Bay Horse but strongly suspect that it has grown from a small single story building to what we see today. It could also be the earlier Garners Arms which stood alongside the current pub (c1900). Or it could be an old inn that stood at Skippool which is listed on the 1841 census as the Bozle Inn although this might say Bozle Farm as the handwriting is bad and I might be completely wrong.

Blacksmiths
This has surprised me the most as there are actually 6 listed between 1782 and 1795.

1782 – ........Thomas Eaves
1783-1789 – John Carter
1783 – ........Robert Collinson
1787-1794 – John Backhouse
1789 – ........Robert Dickinson
1792-1795 – John Thornton

Once again they might not have been working all at the same time but the dates seem pretty tight to me and as they were all producing children they could have been. In 1841 the Bay horse is listed as the Bay Horse Beer House and the occupant is Robert Eaves .. blacksmith. Perhaps this is the son or grandson of Thomas Eaves above?

I’ve been out all day so apologies for the rushed post tonight .. I hope it makes sense.

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Ellen Harrison perhaps ...

I would just like to do a celebratory circuit of this blog as I have finally finished typing the Thornton Marsh Act. That has been a long slog and at times I wish I'd paid the £46 to get copies.

I've been adding some extra information to the existing pages of the site today. It's amazing how when you go back a few months later you've learned so much in the mean time. I've added some information on the Hamlet of Holmes and a little bit on Poolfoot Farm and am working my way through bit by bit.

I've also added a new pic into the Gallery of Thornton Station which is one that I have seen before but a good shot anyway.


Now for the Quiz

I decided to make it a bit harder this week as you've been getting them so quickly .. think I went a bit too hard with this one though. I must admit that a nice meal at the Thornton Lodge in the sun on Sunday afternoon did influence my decision of location ever so slightly.

The answer to this weeks quiz was ...

Outside Poolside Cottage at Skippool

As Mike guessed it was Skippool I think that's enough to put him in first place and the only reply that was near.

In 1901 the occupants of Poolside Cottage were Peter and Ellen Harrison so perhaps the EH is Ellen. Interestingly Peter is listed as a mariner of the 'Flat Alice Linda' barge and with the Harrison surname and nautical theme he could be a descendant of Thomas Harrison who wrote from the slave ship in 1752. Alternatively somebody might have found a nice engraved stone at a car boot and stuck it in their wall :-D

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Thornton Cleveleys Forum ...

Just to let everyone know that unfortunately the old Forum has dissapeared without reason so Mike has started a new one.

Thornton Cleveleys Forum (mark 2)

All new posters very welcome.

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Stanah Lease with Plan ...

Well they well and truely got the weather wrong today .. not a drop of rain in sight. I hope it lasts for the rest of the summer unlike last year. It was nice to see so many people out and about but I won't say where for the obvious reasons. My weekends now consist of looking for good photo's balanced against how much of a plank I'm going to look taking them!

I've added another lease document onto the website which relates to some land at Stanah. The main document was 4 sheets written on velum which were joined at the bottom by a row of seals. Unfortunately it had been folded and I wasn't allowed to open it out fully to copy what was inside. The document I've added was a seperate Indenture document relating to the main document. It is quite long winded and complicated but I've come to realise that different people are looking for different information and this one has quite a few names in it. I also managed to copy a small plan from the back of the main document. I was really excited when I saw the word plan on the Records Office index but to be honest I nearly missed it .. beggars can't be choosers though.


Now for the Quiz

Where in Thornton am I? ...

There are 2 photo's this week both from the same location .. I will post the first one tonight and the second one tomorrow night.















Both the photo's are 'outside' somewhere

Please email your answers here this week.

2nd Photo

Click to enlargeA

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Stanah, Thornton and the Clow ...

I have finally had permission through via the Records Office to reproduce some more of the documents I rummaged through on my last trip. The problem is that a lot of the documents relating to Thornton are privately owned by the Oglethorpe Collection and I have had to have written permission from them to use them on the site.

The first document I have added is a letter from a Thomas Harrison to his wife and son in Stanah from a slave ship in Virginia dated 1752.

Now I know this isn’t directly about Thornton but I thought it was interesting enough to put in and I hadn’t realised until reading this that there were slave ships running out from Lancaster. I have tried to find some more about Thomas Harrison but as you can imagine from that date the information is a little sketchy to say the least. After doing a bit of digging my best guess is that this might be Thomas Harrison of Stanah, noted as a shipcarpenter in 1754, who married Ellen Bickerstaff (good Thornton name that is), daughter of Richard Bickerstaff of Stanah, on the 6th of October 1750 at St Chads in Poulton. This Thomas and Ellen went on to have a son called Thomas according to a document at the Records Office but as many children took their fathers name this is still just a best guess. I’d love to know what happened to this family, whether Thomas returned and lived out his life in Thornton or if he died abroad and his wife remarried or indeed whether the family eventually emigrated and became early settlers in America .. but that’s probably just me being nosy.

The second document is ‘Lands gaind by the new Clow’ and has another sheet attached which says ‘Survey of Robert Bickerstaff Land in Stenoa’, both are undated.

Now what the heck is a clow? There are lots of mentions of Clows on the Records Office search but none actually say what it is. I’ve been asking on Brians Forum and as he, and many helpful others, suggested it does appear to be mentioned along with watercourses/waterways and is documented as an alternative spelling for Clough. I’ve also found it mentioned a lot in relation to water mills and especially as a type of valve for releasing water.

1890 22 September Baildon Local Board wrote to Idle Local Board about ‘the bad condition of the water in the wheel Race at Buck Mill, and to the necessity for its being let off occasionally’

1891 29 June another letter from Baildon Local Board, about opening the Clow at Buck Mill ‘to obviate the bad smells said to arise there’

A smelly clow can’t be a pleasant thing under any circumstances!

Now I personally don’t think that the clow mentioned in the document is relating to a mill. I think the name stuck and it could be referring to a valve which released water from Dykes into the river which had previously overflowed and flooded the surrounding area. There are modern release valves still at Stanah Clough (OK not so recent a photo but I don’t feel inclined to climb down in the mud when I have a perfectly good sepia one) and Ramper Pot.

































Nice hat missus!

As for the date of the documents again it’s a best guess (if you think this post is vague you should see what I've put on the site). After looking into some of the names on the first sheet, the dates which seem to keep coming up are around the mid 1700’s .. especially around 1760ish. I can find a Robert Bickerstaff owning some of the lands mentioned in 1761 but it could be a son or grandson who is on our doc and actually be much later around the time of the enclosure of Thornton Marsh in 1800 (still typing it).

So before I tie myself up in knots about who, what, when, where and how, I will leave you to draw your own conclusions .. and if nothing else it’s very nice handwriting.

Just for Fun ...
Circle the Cat

PS .. I have also added a new link to the baptism records 1759 - 1798 for St Chads in Poulton which was Thornton's Parish Church before Christ Church.

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Thornton Gala ...

It's Thornton Gala this Saturday and I do hope that the weather holds out for them unlike Poulton Gala last week. The procession starts at King George's and as far as I'm aware ends up back there. Russ has volunteered to be a Marshall for the procession helping to block off the roads so he'll be feeling all important in his high vis vest.

I do wish it had more support as it seems to be getting less and less as the years go by. It was still a big day when I was a girl but (as we were discussing last night) that was before PC's, mobile phones, gaming consoles and regular trips to Theme Parks. When my late Dad was a boy his Dad used to save up all year for Thornton Gala to give the kids a great day out. They'd take a picnik and spend all day and it was looked forward to till the next year. Unless I have been looking in the wrong places I do think it could have been advertised a bit more. They did have a website but that has dissapeared and I think it would have been good to have been able to see the procession route and to know what times things were happening online as that's how most people find things out nowadays.

I'll definately be out watching and hope it's a good show.


Now for the Quiz

The answer to this weeks Quiz is ...




















The Church of the Nazarene on the corner of Lesley Avenue and Trunnah Road (almost opposite Spar).

To be honest until this was pointed out to me as a Church I thought it was a Scout hut.

In 1st place .. Andy
In 2nd place .. Mike

I'm in the process of putting some more documents onto the site but will be able to tell you more on Thursday

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The Sunday Quiz ...

Evening all and apologies for the late post. I became a little 'over tired' this afternoon at our family get together and had a little sleep this afternoon. Don't leave the sherry in the kitchen with the cook!

I've had a bit of a quiet week on the site this week and am raring to go again for next week so will have more to report on Thursday.


Now for the Quiz ...

Where in Thornton am I ?




















Answers here as usual folks ...

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Padding out ...

Not personally that is.

I've been for my quarterly visit to the rheumatologist this week and after being prodded and pulled around have ended up not doing much on the site this week .. must try harder! I have made a start trying to fill in more information for what is already on. I realised that there are still quite a few titles with nothing in them so will have more to tell you on Sunday.

Hope you all have a brill weekend and see you Sunday.

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I forgot!...

Sorry I have forgotten to do a post tonight .. I will do one tomorrow now as it's a good night on tele :-)

The Sunday Quiz ...

Evening all. There is someone on Brians forum asking about the whereabouts of Stackstead Bungalow which on the 1901 census is listed as being on Victoria Road .. well Ramper Road to be exact. I've narrowed it down to between Lytham Villas (the red dot) and Mayfair Gardens (the red line) on the map below. Has anybody heard of Stackstead Bungalow?










Click picture to enlarge.

The gentleman who lived there, a Mr Henry Heys, was a stone mason and built and owned a lot of the houses at Burn Naze.


And now for the Quiz ...

The answer to this weeks quiz was ... Trunnah
(note to self .. don't do any more crosswords. I wouldn't let any of you lot on my boat either :-D)

In 1st and only place is ... Brian

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