Underbank Road, Thornton

Firstly what a fabulous weekend we are having ! Can't you just smell all those bbq's .. lots of 'pink' people around Thornton tomorrow I think. I'm stuck at home as Russ is off doing his power kiting at South Shore .. it's quite windy today and am expecting to hear the sea rescue helicopter go over at any moment.

I've been to Fleetwood Library this week looking at the maps and trying to locate the photo I posted on the site which has Underbank Road on the back. I looked at all the maps and can't place that layout of buildings at all. One thing I did spot is that Underbank Road on the 1912 OS map (below) turns at the lane towards Ramper Pot and continues on as Stanah Road unlike today. It changes on the 1939 map to what we know today.

Click on picture to enlarge.

Brian has also pointed out that this area could be the site of the original Saxon Village of Stanah on his forum here. That would be interesting especially as it seems to have remained virtually untouched.

I've now added the link from the website to the Act for the Enclosure of Thornton Marsh although I still haven't finished typing it all out yet. I have a feeling its going to take some time so thought I would add it on in the meantime.

Now for the Quiz ...

Solve the crossword and then rearrange the highlighted letters to spell out the answer to Where in Thornton am I ?

All the answers you need can be found on the website.

If you click on the image to enlarge it first you can then save and print it out to make it easier.

** Sorry I missed 7 down off .. **

7 down. Its a Hall, a Hill and a Road. (6)

This week it is the first person with the answer to Where in Thornton am I? and with the most correct answers filled in (just so you don’t just do the ones with the highlighted squares .. not that you would).

Email your answer here along with the answers to the crossword.

Just for fun...

What is your Viking name

I'm Melkorka Stronghorse and a bit of a wuss aparently :-o

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Thornton Marsh and all those f 's ...

My fingers are worn down to stumps at the moment typing up the Act to enable the enclosing of Thornton Marsh .. all 26 pages of it.

I have become very good at typing 'f' inftead of 's' as you can poffibly fee and am going to finifh this poft in the fpirit of all things Olden. I haven't managed to finifh typing it all out yet (actually am only half way through) but the firft page is on the fite under Documents which will eventually link to the reft.

I wafn't sure whether to include it or not as it is an extremely long and rambling Legal Document but I decided to go ahead .. even if juft to help all you infomniacs out there. It did however make a big change to the future of Thornton and fome of the other more interefting Documents which I hope to add later tie in to it. One being a hand written letter from John Silcock on his appointment as Surveyor of the roads on Thornton Marfh (c1800) as to whether they are fit to become 'King's Highway'. Gofh I'm really fpoiling you .. you'll be cancelling your Sky fubfcription next!

I've alfo added another photo in the Gallery fhowing Burn Naze Station. As foon as I've finifhed typing the above I am going to fpend fome time adding more info to the Gallery for the photo's I already have before I add any more.

Am going out with the dog now as there's a ftrange bright light in the fky.

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The Sunday Quiz ...

Firstly tonight a bit of a rant.

I hate it when you see an old shop that has been there for years and you get some conglomerate opening up across the road and offering what ever the old shop sells at half price to put them out of business .. you then end up with some faceless one stop shop which sells a bit of everything and not very much of anything. Now I look forward to my Thornton Community News magazine each month and I think they do a really good job. Now it seems somebody has come along and decided they can do it better (am not going to print the name as don't want to advertise them). There is a website with the magazine which on its homepage states it provides Thornton community news (naughty) and also that they pay their distributors and allow leaflets to go in the magazine .. something I know TCN are not able to do at the moment, so another dig. The reason it came to my attention is their monthly quiz 'Where am I in Thornton?' .. very original - get your own ideas buddy! In my opinion there isn't room for 2 community magazines in Thornton and I personally will be sticking with the original and best Thornton Community News and putting the other straight in the recycling bin. Rant over.

I feel better now!


Now for the Quiz

The answer to this weeks Where in Thornton Am I Quiz is ...












The railway crossing at New Lane (off School Road)

In 1st place .. Brian
In 2nd place .. James
In 3rd place .. Mike
In 4th place .. Brenda

And the prize for this weeks quiz is that you get to enter for free again next week :-)

I've also added another photo to the website in the Gallery labelled Underbank Road, Thornton. It isn't dated and to me it looks like the junction where Raikes Road meets Underbank Road with Underbank going off round the corner to the right but I may be wrong.

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Feoffment of Thornton - 1461 ...

Well what a beautiful day it has been today .. it surely can't be a bank holiday! We've been out and about with the dog but I won't say where as I think that might make the quiz just a bit too easy. Whilst I was rooting around in the undergrowth somebody actually noted my numberplate .. didn't think I looked like a hooligan (must be the new nose piercing which if anyone tells you doesn't hurt .. they are lying).

I've had some permissions to reproduce through from the Records Office but with a bit of a twist. There are about 100 records which are almost entirely about Thornton and they turn out not to be owned by the Records Office but privately. They are having to write for permission so am having to hold back on some of the records.

I have added a new section on the website called 'Documents' which now contains:

'Feoffment of Thornton-le-Fylde - 1461' which is in latin but I have included a translation (I made that sound like I'd translated it didn't I). It doesn't contain a lot of information but is a great document none the less.

'Lease for Thornton Hall - 1723/4' which is in legal speak and is quite tough going but worth having a look.

I've decided to set up another website which is just to host some of the photos of the documents as even though the main site (http://www.thornton.btik.com/) has great features I am limited to the number of photos I can have and the size has to be quite small too. The Lease was 15 photos on it's own. Any links to the other site will open in a new window to avoid confusion.

I've also added a new pic 'Farm Workers and Marsh Mill' in the Gallery section as well. Haven't I been a busy bee.


Now for the Quiz

Where in Thornton am I? ...



















Answers here as usual folks ...

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Thornton Hall ...

I've had a very productive day today despite coming home to find my internet explorer down .. thank goodness for Firefox.

I've been to Fleetwood Library today and have scanned some more photo's for the site. I haven't had chance to put them on yet but will try and get a couple on tonight. I'll add to this post later to let you know what and where they are.

Also the nice lady at the Library had pulled out a plan of Thornton for me which is brilliant. Some kind soul has transcribed a quarter of the Tithe Map of 1839 labelling all the fields and who owned them. It is the section covering Holmes (technically - sort of top lefty Thornton) and the surrounding areas but saves a heck of a lot of work for me. Again I need to do some sorting out before the pics go on the site.

I'm also thrilled to have been contacted by a direct descendant of TB Silcock who had Thornton Hall and who is mentioned in the memories section of the site. He thinks he may have some old photos and documents which he is willing to let me have. I have searched and failed to find anything regarding the Hall other than obscure leases for fields so am hoping they can be found.

I've had such a good day if it was lottery night I'd buy a ticket !

Update - Have added 'Motor Train - Burn Naze Halt' and 'Hawthorne Road - Thornton' to the Gallery on the site.

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The Sunday Quiz ...

I am ploughing through all the information I have at the moment to put together a list of who the main land owners were in Thornton through the ages. So far I have managed to put together the inheretance lines of the 'de Singletons' (bit of a query on Joan de Singleton in this one), almost all the 'Banastre's' and the 'de Thornton's'. I'm hoping to do a Timeline section for the website but its proving challenging to say the least!

I'm also still waiting for permission from the Records Office who I emailed again today but was told to be patient .. not my strongest characteristic.


Now for the Quiz

The answer to this weeks quiz was ...

Sacred Heart Church Hall

The one an only correct entry this week was .. Mike

Its actually a really nice spire which I didn't notice until the other day.

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Fleetwood Road, Thornton

I've been sent two old photos of Fleetwood Road which I've added to the Gallery. I've put them in together as they are the same scene at different times. The building closest to the Chapel (Highfield 1903) seems to have a shop on one side where there is now a house. If anybody knows what it was I'd like to know.

I also found the following recently ...

In 1739 the king leased to John Wilkinson the marshes called Thornton Marsh, Holme Marsh, Stanah Marsh, Trunnah Marsh and Haddle Moss for thirty-one years ;

So does anyone have any ideas where Haddle Moss was .. I've never heard of it. Is it just me or does John Wilkinson sound like a bit of a chancer leasing cheap land.


Now for the Quiz

Due to the weather I've used a photo I had in stock

Where in Thornton am I? ...




















Answers here as usual folks ...


Here's an extra clue ...
















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Thornton and the Records Office ...

I went to Lancashire Records Office on Tuesday where I only intended to stay for a couple of hours and ended up staying for 6 (kid in a sweetie shop comes to mind). I don’t have permission to reproduce the documents yet so I can’t post them .. sorry.

The one thing that surprised me was the size of the documents .. they certainly went big in those days. I was hoping to put photos of documents on the website for people to read but I had to photograph them in sections .. 3 to 4 across and the same down so to read them across you have to flick from photo to photo. I haven’t quite decided how to tackle this yet but I’m sure something will come to me.

In my ignorance I ordered up the 1839 Tithe Map for Thornton at 4pm with half and hour to go and nearly died when I saw the size of it! It was about 6ft wide and 4ft deep with a book (2ft by 1.5ft) attached half way up the left edge of the map containing about 100 pages. I had to climb on the table just to read the book (being a short house and all). They didn’t look very impressed when I said I didn’t have time to view it properly. The map itself is very crumpled and I don’t think it’s going to photograph well but am going to go back and spend the whole day on it.

The problem I am having with the records for Thornton …

Firstly the spellings of places change almost from document to document. The worst is Stanah which I haven’t seen spelt the same way twice. Stena, Steno, Staynall, Staina, Stanay, Stanoe etc. The field names also seem to change on a regular basis. This makes it difficult to search the index.

Also there are quite a few Thorntons in Lancashire, mainly one near Liverpool and one in Yorkshire which gets a bit confusing as to which one is being referred to.

Another factor is that the land in Thornton seems to have changed hands massively and been divided up throughout the centuries with many of the larger landowners not actually being based here themselves. I have a lease for 4 fields in Stanah, which is part of Thornton Hall in 1830, which are owned by 11 different people!

It would be so much easier if Thornton Hall still stood in its original position (obviously rebuilt over the years) and had passed directly from one owner to another with much of it’s lands in tact. On the other hand it wouldn’t be half as much fun for me rummaging through all the lovely old documents.

I've added a new documents section on the website in anticipation that it might actually contain some soon .. I'll keep you posted.

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The Sunday Quiz ...

The answer to this weeks quiz was ...

The wall around Sacred Heart School in Thornton. The picture was taken from the bus stop over the road from The Last Orders Pub. I can't show the wider picture as it's got school children in it (pc and all that).

In 1st place .. Mike
In 2nd place .. Andy

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Thornton's Tithebarn ...

I have added some information on the website about the tithebarn in Thornton. I know it was there and I know roughly where it was but apart from that I have very little information to go on. I'm no expert in sizes but I think tithebarn field is less than 3 acres so their land would most likely have included other fields as well. Hopefully I will be able to add some more details and acurate dates at a later stage.


Now for the Quiz

Where in Thornton am I? ...














As it might be a difficult one I'll also throw in 10 questions you can ask .. that's in total not each :-D

Please ask your questions in the Comments below but send your guesses here as usual.

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Sandyforth Nook, Thornton

I have been very reliably informed that property formerly known as Sandyforth Nook on Fleetwood Rd near the Primitive Methodist Church, has deeds dating back to 1875. The two adjoining properties according to the deeds were originally built for sisters. The cottages were later sold at auction at the Gardener's Arms pub in 1889 and I have put them on Thornton's Top 10 Oldest houses on the website in fifth place.

I've been out and about this week taking pictures up at Stanah (and I might add falling in a dyke in the process! .. mountain goat I am not!). I noticed the wall like feature which runs across Ramper Pot at the point where the floodgates were (white spot on map) on the aerial map and went for a look see.

I've walked down that way many times and have never spotted it. If you do go for a stroll its most noticable past Ramper Pot on the way round to the jetties where there is a bench at the point it crosses the path. I very scientifically stuck my finger in it and it seemed to be just earth but you can see at the very edges that it once stood quite high.












This is a piece of useless information that you can impart to the walking partner of your choice next time you are down at the river.

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Added for comments

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Sunday Quiz ...

The answer to this weeks quiz was ...














The entrance to Bourne Hall which is on the Fleetwood side of the new roundabout to the Recycling Centre on Fleetwood Road.

The only correct answer this week was from Brian which given all the time he spends on the other side of the road is not surprising.

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Update on Quiz ...

I have had one correct entry so far and here is a more generous photo ...

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Marsh Farm, Thornton

Whilst rumaging I have come across a hint at another Mill in Thornton from a document dated 1807.

FEOFFMENT of a messuage and land called Thorn Yard; Old Holmes Mill Hill and Charnleys Cottage in Thornton.Consideration: £443

Holmes is one of the older settlements in Thornton as it stands on higher ground so perhaps there was also a mill on 'Old Holmes Mill Hill' at one time.

I've also added a wonderful story of growing up on Marsh Farm in Thornton on the website which has been kindly donated. I have had to split it into 2 parts as it is very long but it is a really good read and gives you an insight into day to day life on the farm.

Now for the Quiz ...

Where in Thornton am I? ...





















Answers here as usual folks.

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